Posts by Island Man

34

Babylon the Great and the Anti Christ

by Perry in

similar views as those presented here are gaining in popularity in christian circles.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgmrfatdvtm.

Island Man

I believe that the writer of Revelation intended Babylon the Great to refer to Jerusalem and the religious leaders of Judaism. This makes the most sense when Revelation is considered in the context of the rest of the NT. Consider the commonalities between the two:

1. Both the Jewish religious system and Babylon the great are said to be full of the blood of prophets, including the blood of Jesus' followers:

(Matthew 23:29-36) . . .“Woe to YOU, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because YOU build the graves of the prophets and decorate the memorial tombs of the righteous ones, . . .31 Therefore YOU are bearing witness against yourselves that YOU are sons of those who murdered the prophets. . . .34 For this reason, here I am sending forth to YOU prophets and wise men and public instructors. Some of them YOU will kill and impale, and some of them YOU will scourge in YOUR synagogues and persecute from city to city; 35 that there may come upon YOU all the righteous blood spilled on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zech·a·riʹah son of Bar·a·chiʹah, whom YOU murdered between the sanctuary and the altar. 36 Truly I say to YOU, All these things will come upon this generation.

(Revelation 17:6) . . .And I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of the holy ones and with the blood of the witnesses of Jesus. . .

(Revelation 18:24) . . .Yes, in her was found the blood of prophets and of holy ones and of all those who have been slaughtered on the earth.”

The book of Acts portrays the Jews in various places as being instrumental in stirring up persecution against Jesus' followers.

2. Judaism was international in scope, having both ethnic Jewish and foreign proselyte followers in many countries who speak many languages:

(Acts 2:5-11) . . .As it was, there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, reverent men, from every nation of those under heaven. 6 So, when this sound occurred, the multitude came together and were bewildered, because each one heard them speaking in his own language. 7 Indeed, they were astonished and began to wonder and say: “See here, all these who are speaking are Gal·i·leʹans, are they not? 8 And yet how is it we are hearing, each one of us, his own language in which we were born? 9 Parʹthi·ans and Medes and Eʹlam·ites, and the inhabitants of Mes·o·po·taʹmi·a, and Ju·deʹa and Cap·pa·doʹci·a, Ponʹtus and the [district of] Asia, 10 and Phrygʹi·a and Pam·phylʹi·a, Egypt and the parts of Libʹy·a, which is toward Cy·reʹne, and sojourners from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, 11 Creʹtans and Arabians, we hear them speaking in our tongues about the magnificent things of God.”

(Revelation 17:15) . . .And he says to me: “The waters that you saw, where the harlot is sitting, mean peoples and crowds and nations and tongues. . .

3. Jesus' instructions to his followers that they flee Jerusalem when they see it surrounded, matches the idea expressed at Revelation 18:4:
(Revelation 18:4) . . .And I heard another voice out of heaven say: “Get out of her, my people, if YOU do not want to share with her in her sins, and if YOU do not want to receive part of her plagues.

The only scripture I see in Revelation that seems to contradict this view is Revelation 17:18: "And the woman whom you saw means the great city that has a kingdom over the kings of the earth. . ."

Jerusalem did not have such great political clout back in the first century. It's possible that Revelation is here referring, not so much to political clout, but just the fact that Judaism was very influential, having adherents throughout the ancient world who would make annual pilgrimages to Jerusalem. Jerusalem was also the figurative palace of the God of the universe, whose kingdom is above that of all the kings of the earth. The religion was also greatly respected by non-members, seen as a source of ancient noble wisdom. Of course this all changed later when the Jews started being accused and expelled from Rome. But the writer is likely talking about the great influence of Judaism early in the 1st century.

The writer of Revelation is basically comparing and contrasting "apostate" Judaism with true Christianity. The NT refers to christians as being the chaste bride of christ, so the writer styles Judaism as the antithesis of that - a promiscuous harlot. The book of Ezekiel also styles Jerusalem/the Jews as a promiscuous harlot. It's really not hard to see that the writer was referring to Jerusalem/Judaism.

If you see the book of Revelation as a purely human work by a man living in the late first century or early second century and trying to guess at the future with the limited knowledge of his own time, then its easier to see how it fits with other bible texts. But if you see it as being a truly prophetic book inspired by God and accurately referring to future events to take place in our time, then it starts to make a lot less sense.

3

Last Spiritual Hard-On

by TheFadingAlbatros in

when the huge hypocrisy of jw.org will be fully unveiled and governments or other authorities are decided to put an end to it, what will happen in the mind of the rank and file jws ?

are they going to have a very last spiritual hard-on, sticking to their guns of so-called "truths" and "new lights" ?.

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Island Man

"It's the foretold attack of Gog of Magog! Jehovah, please give me the strength to remain faithful to the end and to not be swayed by the vicious satanic propaganda of the governments! Please let me be loyal to your organization no matter what."

17

BBC Radio 4. The Report. ''Jehovah's Witnesses and Child Sexual Abuse''. Thursday 9th July 8pm.

by ThomasCovenant in

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0612hjs

Island Man

Why does the program keep getting pushed back? Could it be that Watchtower is the cause? Maybe they keep setting a date for an interview and each time they cancel and reschedule as a stalling tactic?

28

Was It Designed? Rabies Purposeful Mode of Transmission.

by Island Man in

was it designed?.

rabies' purposeful mode of transmissionrabies is caused by a number of lyssaviruses that attack the cells of the nervous system disrupting their normal function.

symptoms include painful spasms in the muscles of the throat and larynx of patients, accompanied by a strong aversion to drinking liquids - hydrophobia.

Island Man

Satan, has creative powers.............
what scripture pray tell, would support that? none, but she 'reasoned' that it must be so, because satan is an all powerful angel with creative powers and God wouldn't create harmful creatures.

Maybe she thinks it was Satan boasting to Job about the fearsome characteristics of Leviathan . . . or does she think Jehovah was boasting to Job about Satan's creation? LOL.

29

To DA or not to DA, that is the question?

by dubstepped in

let me preface this by saying that i don't expect anyone here to make my decision for me.

i do however note that like the bible says, in the multitude of counselors there is wisdom, and this is a huge decision, so i wanted to put it out there for discussion.

i really appreciate your words of wisdom, as this affects not just me but my wife also, as we find ourselves in the same boat.

Island Man

I think the decision really comes down to balancing two competing interests - planting seeds with JWs by means of a powerful, factual DA letter vs the freedom to speak with JW family by not DAing.

If you don't have JW relatives and/or friends whom you wish to stay in contact with, then I think DAing does more good than harm. I no longer buy the whole "playing by their rules" argument. To me, such an argument smacks of useless petty pride. It really does nothing to help those inside think seriously about the organization. It's nothing but a selfish assertion of personal ego/power.

On the other hand a good DA letter - emailed to all the publishers in your congregation before giving it to the elders - does a lot to help those still mentally trapped inside.

6

Glory, glory, HalleluAPA!

by Island Man in

after describing apostates as being "mentally diseased" apostates may soon have good gounds for describing jws as being "mentally diseased", according to this news story.

Island Man

:smirk: :smirk: :laughing:

6

Glory, glory, HalleluAPA!

by Island Man in

after describing apostates as being "mentally diseased" apostates may soon have good gounds for describing jws as being "mentally diseased", according to this news story.

Island Man

After describing apostates as being "mentally diseased" apostates may soon have good gounds for describing JWs as being "mentally diseased", according to this news story

20

Futility of being right

by JWdaughter in

so, on another thread, about pluto, grreat teacher said something that speaks to my feelings about religon.

"i've kinda been sad since pluto has been demoted to dwarf planet.. you talk about 9 planets and all the little kids at school will correct you real quick and tell you that now there are only 8 planets in the solar system!".

nothing in the universe has changed but the opinion of men.

Island Man

The JW religion is all about being right and pointing out everyone else as being wrong. JWs make it seem like the smallest inaccurate belief about God or the bible makes you into a false worshiper doomed to destruction unless you get your facts correct.

The most innocent and irrelevant inaccurate beliefs of another religion are cited by the JWs as evidence that they are a false religion that cannot possibly have God's favor. And what do JWs think about the JW religion's own falsehoods? As far as they're concerned, the JW religion has no falsehoods. They just get increasingly clarified understandings of the truth. Besides, they're just imperfect men, right? Jehovah sees the heart. Like I said on another forum:

"Being a JW is like being a prisoner in a glass cell painted black so you can't clearly see that it's actually glass and, at the same time, being deceived into thinking that you're actually free and inside of a strong stone tower for your own protection and, at the same time, you're throwing stones through the bars of your cell at all other buildings outside which you imagine are made of glass."

lol.

19

As a Work of Literature The Bible is Just Dreadful

by cofty in

of course it's easy to criticise the bible for all manner of serious flaws, but it fails on a more basic level.. it is just a terrible piece of literature.. this piece on "southern skeptic" is well worth a read.. god is a terrible writer....

Island Man

I don't believe it's fair to characterize the bible as a terrible piece of literature. The bible certainly has its flaws and certainly isn't divinely inspired and it certainly isn't a remarkably good source for moral enlightenment.

But viewed purely as a literary work of art, the bible is actually good. You can't judge the literary quality of the bible based on English translations. You have to look at the writing in the source text - Hebrew. It is actually a good work of Hebrew literature.

9

Does it say anything in the bible about being a “spiritual head” or the head being responsible for everyone’s “spiritual growth”?

by My Name is of No Consequence in

my wife is really getting on my case about not being spiritual and leading the family spiritually.

at this point, i really dont go to meetings anymore nor do i have the desire to go.

i guess its not enough that i work 50 hours a week and pay the majority of the household bills with no complaints.

Island Man

The bible doesn't use the term "spiritual head", as far as I can remember. However, it does say that:

The man is the head of the woman. (Ephesians 5:23; 1 Corinthians 11:3)
That the woman is to be in subjection to the husband. (Ephesians 5:22,24)
That women were created for men and not men for women. (1 Corinthians 11:8,9)
That women are not to teach or exercise authority over men. (1 Timothy 2:11,12)
That men are God's glory, but women are man's glory. In other words, it says that men are closer to the image of God than women. (1 Corinthians 11:7)

So the bible does in fact convey the idea that the man is the head of the household. There's no denying it, just as there is clearly no way of denying that the bible is a misogynistic book.